Сложные эфиры в синтетических смазках. Вопросы к TomNJ

[Ё}I{ИК 399 563]

На ваши вопросы ответит Thomas Schafer.

 

 
38 лет работы в корпорации Hatco (в настоящее время это подразделение Chemtura/Lanxess). Последние 16 лет в Hatco занимал должность вице-президента по продажам и маркетингу в области синтетических смазочных материалов. Руководил исследованиями и разработками продуктов и усовершенствованием процессов, а также координировал производство и продажи с совместными предприятиями в Германии и Бразилии. Лично отвечал за коммерческую и военную авиационную продукцию в течение двадцати лет.
 
Tom американец и не знает русский язык, поэтому при формулировании вопросов, прошу по возможности использовать английский язык. Вы же можете воспользоваться Гугл-переводчиком (Вас много, а Томас у нас такой один, Sae20 c русскими корнями).
 
Вопросы задавайте любые, которые касаются именно синтетических масел и смазок.
Прошу учитывать временной лаг, личную жизнь человека и просто проявляйте уважение в любом общении.

Скрытый текст

 

Thomas Schafer will answer your questions.

Retired after 38 years at Hatco Corporation, a manufacturer and global leader in synthetic esters and synthetic lubricants (now a division of Chemtura/Lanxess). For the last 16 years at Hatco served as Vice President of Sales & Marketing, with global responsibilities in synthetic lubricants. He led product research and development and process improvement, and coordinated production and sales with joint ventures in Germany and Brazil. He was personally responsible for commercial and military aviation products for twenty years.
 
Tom does not know Russian, so when formulating questions, I ask you to use English if possible. You can use the Google translator (there are many of you, and Thomas is the only one with us, Sae20 with Russian roots).
 
Ask any questions that relate specifically to synthetic oils and greases.
Please take into account the time lag, the personal life of a person and just show respect in any communication.

 

 

Из-за чего происходит быстрое срабатывание TBN в маслах с эстерами

[TomNJ 447]

6 hours ago, Poziom1989 said:

@ Tomnj You know some technologies that increase polarity in oil based on PAO , besides ester, AN etc.

 

Diesters, polyol esters, and ANs are the primary ones used in motor oils.  Ketjenlube polymer esters can also be used but are expensive.

[TomNJ 447]

50 minutes ago, SAE20 said:

 

Thank you  for all your honest and well-considered answers for this subject, such as: "What do you think. Which is still better? Esters vs AN . And why?" "How do you feel about mixing motor oils?" (other) etc.

 

It sheds important light on our business when we can have honest, adult-to-adult conversations about these questions, so I hope you have offered some useful compass points. There were also many practical questions, asking for definition on the facts as you move to product-focused attention. I have happily offered a view here too, but I want to stress that these are the conversations that should be happening across the whole knowledge - and at all levels. Rapidly moving to the 'Deny' state in mixing oils constantly opens up spaces where there are no defined answers yet, so please bear with me -
The polar part is made up of metallic and nonmetallic derivatives. So which ones do you think are more likely to be incompatible?
PCMO makers have enabled a PCMO and its additives to be fully soluble and compatible in any other PCMO and its additives. What do you think about this statement?
 

 

 

Thank you for your kind words.

 

For the most part it is true that PCMOs meeting industry standards are compatible with each other, but there have been cases of incompatibility involving VI Improvers, and I have heard of some cases involving metallic detergents.  These are very rare among industry approved oils, but I would be more concerned with boutique oils that sometimes contain unconventional components and are not fully approved against industry standards.  Also minor incompatibilities may not cause phase separation or precipitation, but may reduce the performance of the oil.  I generally do not mix oils of different brands because I do not have to, but if I needed to do so I would without fear so long as they are approved oils.

[СИНТЭКС 12 732]

20 минут назад, TomNJ сказал:

I generally do not mix oils of different brands because I do not have to, but if I needed to do so I would without fear so long as they are approved oils.

 

1 час назад, SAE20 сказал:

How do you feel about mixing motor oils ?

Dear Gentlemen! Could you please come to an agreement and a common opinion?

We, ordinary people, would not like to mix oils with trembling hands

[SAE20 12 696]

16 минут назад, СИНТЭКС сказал:

 

Dear Gentlemen! Could you please come to an agreement and a common opinion?

We, ordinary people, would not like to mix oils with trembling hands

 

if you care to know my opinion (I guess you know :) ) - definitely, I am fine with mixing oils

[Poziom1989 10]

@TomnjThank you for your response. You think that you can completely dispense with esters and use e.g.

https://www.aftonchemical.com/SBU/Lubricant-Components/SealSwellAdditives/HiTEC-082

The aniline point is important from what I know.

What do you think about OSP technology, DOW produces them.

[Alex 34]

TomNJ 

What do you think of anti-friction oil additives?
For instance .
Add tungsten additive to redline oil (there is a lot of molybdenum)?
It is believed that tungsten complements molybdenum well.

[TomNJ 447]

On 4/15/2020 at 2:36 AM, Poziom1989 said:

@ Tomnj Thank you for your response. You think that you can completely dispense with esters and use eg

https://www.aftonchemical.com/SBU/Lubricant-Components/SealSwellAdditives/HiTEC-082

The aniline point is important from what I know.

What do you think about OSP technology, DOW produces them.

 

Seal swell additives work if all you want is seal swell. Polar base oils also help with additive solubility and can improve volatility and lubricity to some degree. Aniline point is one measure of polarity.  I have no experience with the OSP technology.

Изменено 16 апреля 2020 пользователем TomNJ

[TomNJ 447]

On 4/15/2020 at 6:58 AM, Alex said:

Tomnj 

 

 

Friction modifiers are mainly to enhance fuel efficiency.  I have no experience with Tungsten additives.

[ss333 1 175]

TomNJ Какой срок хранения у моторных масел с ораническими модификаторами трения, может ли он быть меньше, чем у масла без OFM. Какие OFM применяются в грузовых дизельных маслах?

Изменено 16 апреля 2020 пользователем ss333

[Poziom1989 10]

1 час назад, TomNJ сказал:

 

Dodatki do pęcznienia fok działają, jeśli wszystko czego potrzebujesz to pęcznienie fok. Polarne oleje bazowe również pomagają w dodatkowej rozpuszczalności i mogą w pewnym stopniu poprawić lotność i smarowność. Punkt anilinowy jest jedną z miar polarności.  Nie mam doświadczenia z technologią OSP.

If you look at this oil, there are no esters, An etc.

 

 

[TomNJ 447]

4 hours ago, ss333 said:

TomNJ  What is the shelf life for motor oils with oranic friction modifiers, can it be shorter than for oils without OFM. Which OFMs are used in truck diesel oils?

 

I doubt they affect shelf life if not stored at high temperatures.  I do not know what is used in diesel oils.

[TomNJ 447]

3 hours ago, Poziom1989 said:

If you look at this oil, there are no esters, An etc.

 

 

 

I do not know what is in this oil for seals or solubility.  Could have Ketjenlube or small dose of aromatic ester. 

[torcon 64 513]

TomNJ большое спасибо за ваши ответы!

 

Вопрос: POE могут clean отложения (sludge) в двигателе? Esters обладают моющими свойствами? 

Среди нас ходят слухи, что масла c содержанием POE хорошо моют двигатель. Но я не встречал документальных подтверждений этому, только слухи.

[СИНТЭКС 12 732]

torcon так TomNJ уже отвечал. Да, эстеры моют, а самое главное - эффективно поддерживают чистоту:

12.04.2020 в 20:43, TomNJ сказал:

If I was formulating an oil for my car I would add a proper POE at 20-30% in order to obtain the cleaning, volatility, and lubricity effects

 

[Valery... 1 253]

1 час назад, СИНТЭКС сказал:

torcon так TomNJ уже отвечал. Да, эстеры моют, а самое главное - эффективно поддерживают чистоту:

 

 Поддерживать чистоту легче, чем отмывать грязь. Вопрос в концентрации. В ветке про ПОЭ говорят о 2-3-5%. TomNJ о 20-30%.