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TomNJ

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  1. TomNJ
    POE type esters have fewer methylene hydrogens than hydrocarbons and are therefore more oxidatively stable. How long break down takes depends on the temperature and oxygen contact, but POEs should last longer in an oxidative environment than hydrocarbons, including PAO. Also esters can dissolve much more anti-oxidant additives than PAO, if the formulator chooses to do so. When formulating ester based industrial oils I typically used 3 to 5 times as much anti-oxidants than PAO oils. Like with hydrocarbons, oxidation can cause ester oils to thicken and can generate corrosive by-pr
  2. TomNJ
    I have two vehicles that only see about 2000 miles per year each, and I change the oil in these vehicles every two years. I believe this is safe provided the car is taken on some long trips (over 20 miles) every month or two to bring the oil up to temperature and burn off gas and water.
  3. TomNJ
    Hi, I’ll try to help. 1. Since I am retired 15 years I never formulated with AN. I would expect it to have some polarity due to the aromatic rings in the chemical structure, and the fact that it swells seals, but not as polar as most POEs. Plus I have seen coking test data on ANs that are cleaner than PAO or Group IIIs, and this is likely due to it solubilizing break down products. 2. Since I have not formulated with ANs this is difficult to answer. The physical properties you show in your table are very similar. ANs have a low VI and should onl
  4. TomNJ
    I never formulated with Dioctyl Terephthalate. We did use some ortho phthalates such as DIDP and DTDP in air compressor lubricants, but in general the phthalate family due to the aromatic ring suffered from low VI, high pour point, and lack of biodegradability compared to our other ester choices. Terephthalates should have a higher VI and may be more suitable in synthetic lubricants than ortho phthalate esters.
  5. TomNJ
    Personally I would not do so. POE jet turbine engine oils are not designed for automatic transmissions or to blend with ATFs, so there is some risk, such as incompatibility with additives or seals and changes to frictional properties. While the risk may be small with small percentages, I have not seen any test results or other data that suggest a benefit to justify the risk.
  6. TomNJ
    The Nyco turbine oil will look much the same as the Mobil Jet II in analysis since they both meet MIL-PRF-23699 specification. There are no metals and only phosphorus will be shown. I am certain this oil contains a phosphate anti-wear additive but do not know if it is TCP or another variant. Likely TCP given the age of the formulation, but I do not know for sure.
  7. TomNJ
    Nyco Turbonycoil 600 meets MIL-PRF-24699G specification which allows no metals and are ashless fluids. A analysis will show no metals, and the only additive it will see is the phosphorus content from the phosphate additive. The rest of the additives will not show. This oil is based entirely on POEs and the TAN and TBN will be essentially zero. It will look much like Mobil Jet II.
  8. TomNJ
    I have been to Russia several times back in the early 90s (Moscow and Ufa) and the people I met were very intelligent and friendly. This was shortly after communism fell and the only negative I noticed was that many people seemed to be little numb, that is, had little incentive to work hard because they had little freedom or chance of success. It was clear, however, that things were changing and entrepreneurism was growing. Hopefully today Russian people have more freedom than 30 years ago and greater opportunity to succeed in life. I do not feel that Russians are crazy or fanatic
  9. TomNJ
    MJII contains photosensitive anti-oxidants that turn orange/red/purple when exposed to light. It should not blacken metal but the oil could get darker.
  10. TomNJ
    Interesting. Do these oils have enough history to show they actually work in protecting engines over time (not just UOAs)? API specifications require phosphorus (ZDDP) and Cupper is not listed in the API Engine Oil Licensing Directory, yet they claim to meet these specifications.
  11. TomNJ
    In that UOA the phosphorus is only 40% of the expected amount in Mobil Jet II. What is the other 60%? In the other UOA the oil contained 25% of the motor oil last used. Therefore I consider both UOAs to be inconclusive. Furthermore, UOAs do not show everything going on in an engine. It is possible that the high polarity of this ester is providing more temporary protection from a high film strength than I would expect, but I doubt it. It may also be possible that the TCP is hydrolyzing into partial acid phosphates which have excellent EP properties, but can eat some seals. Sti
  12. TomNJ
    Mobil Jet Oil II is about 95% polyol ester and contains anti-wear (TCP), anti-oxidants, yellow metal inhibitors, and anti-foam. It has no detergents, dispersants, anti-rust, or EP additives, and the ester (5 cSt pentaerythritol type) can swell and soften seals. It is not designed for internal combustion engines and its use over time can lead to excess wear, sludge, rust, and seal deterioration. The UOA here shows Zn, P, Ca, Mg, and B at levels that suggest it is contaminated with about 25% of the motor oil last used. This residual motor oil is likely helping with the UOA. Jet e
  13. TomNJ
    Nyco Turbonycoil 600 is a 2nd Generation turbine oil that was approved under MIL-PRF-23699 in 1985. All MIL-PRF-23699 approved jet turbine engine oils are based on POEs and most contain TCP. I recall that there was one approved formulation that contained a slightly different phosphate ester additive instead of TCP but I do not recall which one. The formulations differ mostly in the anti-oxidants and yellow metal corrosion inhibitors used. The specifications are so tight that there is not a lot of room for variation.
  14. TomNJ
    Все три масла имеют аналогичные физические свойства и основаны на POE примерно 94-96%. Остальное - антиоксиданты, противоизносные, ингибиторы желтого металла, противопенные и другие присадки. MJ II - масло 2-го поколения, разработанное в начале 1960-х годов, MH 254 - это масло 3-го поколения, разработанное в конце 1970-х годов, а MJ 387 - масло нового 4-го поколения. Каждое поколение является улучшением по сравнению с предыдущим, в основном , в высокой производительности температуры. Основное различие заключается в типе антиоксидантов, которые обеспечивают чистую работу при более высоких темпе
  15. TomNJ
    Most POEs used in jet engine oils would be suitable for lower viscosity refrigeration oils, such as ISO 22. For higher viscosity refrigeration oils the POEs generally contain some branched acids to build viscosity without sacrificing much miscibility with the refrigerant. Most jet engine oils have about 4-6% additives, while most refrigeration oils have 0-2% additives.
  16. TomNJ
    Correct, the constant top off turns the oil over with fresh oil, and the drain intervals are very long, often 20,000+ hours of flight for modern jets.
  17. TomNJ
    Sorry but I do not understand the question - the translation to English is not so good.
  18. TomNJ
    Happy to help!
  19. TomNJ
    Having never used TCP in a automotive motor oil formulations or seen any data from its use in such oils, it is difficult to answer your questions. I have formulated TCP into aviation and industrial oils for many years in oils intended for high temperature use (ester based synthetics), and have run many different wear, extreme pressure, oxidation, coking, rust and corrosion tests on these oils. I have never identified any corrosion (ferrous, aluminum or yellow metals), oxidation, hydrolysis, or seal issues connected with its use at a 2 to 3% dosage. I doubt its anti-wear properties are stron
  20. TomNJ
    Possibly, but I have not seen any data concerning TCP in catalytic converters. Keep in mind that the studies on the effects of phosphorus in catalytic converters were based on ZDDP. While ZDDP and TCP have a similar percent of phosphorus, TCP is more volatile than ZDDP, having about half the molecular weight, so it is possible TCP can get to the catalytic converter even with little oil consumption.
  21. TomNJ
    No, since I have never seen any data showing the effects of TCP in automotive engines.
  22. TomNJ
    Almost all Jet engine oils are based on Pentaerythritol type POEs (four ester linkages) with a mixture of relatively short fatty acids (average ~C7) which makes them very similar in polarity. The Eastman 2380 uses a different mix of POEs and is slightly less polar, but has slightly higher lubricity. The cleanest jet engine oils are 4th generation oils, the most common being Eastman 2197, Mobil Jet 387, and AeroShell Ascender. The added cleanliness from 4th generation oils is mostly due to advanced anti-oxidants rather than the POE, although Eastman 2197 and AeroShell Ascender also use clean
  23. TomNJ
    TCP is an anti-wear/mild EP additive. My concern in an automotive engine is TCP's high phosphorus content (8.4% or 84,000 ppm) which could potentially affect the catalytic converter. Modern engine oil specifications generally limit phosphorus to 0.08% or 800 ppm for this reason. Most jet engine oils have 2 to 3% of TCP or 1,700 to 2,500 ppm phosphorus. I don't know how much TCP the catalytic converter can tolerate, plus TCP could potentially interfere with the additive balance in the oil. Personally I don't recommend adding jet engine oil to a modern balanced and approved motor
  24. TomNJ
    The Eastman 2380 is based on polyol esters, a mixture of TMP (trimethylolpropane) and DiPE (dipentaerythritol) esters. Most other jet engine oils are based on PE (pentaerythritol) esters. It is an early formulation dating back to 1964 but still one of the most widely used today.
  25. TomNJ
    BP Turbo Oil 2380 (now Eastman Turbo oil 2380) meets the same specifications as Mobil Jet II but the POE base oil composition is completely different.

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