TomNJ

POE at 10% will help with additive solubility and seal swell, but whether it is enough depends on which PAO, which POE, and the balance of the formulation. With that high amount of PAO I would be inclined to use more POE but how much would be guided by test results. I would test at 10%, 20%, and 30% and see which performs best in the testing.

It makes sense if there is a good technical or marketing reason. POE at 5% can help dissolve some additives if they are not dissolving completely in the VHVI used, or if seal swell is needed in the formulation. Or a company can add 5% POE so they can make a marketing claim such as "based on jet engine base oil", but this is rare.

The photos do not identify the esters. A highly polar ester in a high percentage can interfere with and slow down the ability of ZDDP to form a protective film because they compete for the metal surface. This can increase wear, but only on new parts that have not been broken-in, such as test specimens. If the parts have run first with a mineral oil containing ZDDP and the protective film has formed (as in a car engine), then the ester does not interfere with the ZDDP. The optimal amount of POE depends on what you want to achieve with the POE, the type of POE used, the type and r

Yes you are correct that if we look only at ester makers who make POEs in the motor oil range, the number of ester companies is reduced, but still significant globally. These include, ExxonMobil, Calumet, Lanxess (formally Hatco), BASF, Croda, Nippon Oil, OleFina, Zschimmer & Schwarz, Nyco, Olean, Lonza, and others. I know that POEs were made in Ufa, Russia and in China some 20+ years ago as I visited those plants back then. At the time their production was for aviation, especially military. ExxonMobil decided to promote ANs over esters some 15-20 years ago and switched to A

Yes, the ones with the red dot status are the worse and can cause damage to engines. The ones with the orange dot status had something wrong but were deemed not too serious, such as a label issue or a minor out of specification result. If you click the "Status" tab above the color dots it will change the order of the list with the green dots first, then the red, then the orange. Just scroll down to the reds and oranges.

Yes this link lists the bad oils.

I have little experience in diesel engine oils having never owned a diesel car, but I doubt there would be any harm. Diesel oils are optimized for diesel engines but still contain mostly the same additives as gasoline engine oils. The ZDDP type is designed for the higher temperatures and loads of a diesel engine but there is usually more of it, and the dispersant level is higher.

The only disadvantage is price. Keep in mind that oils that have official approvals are certified by independent third parties as having been properly tested against appropriate specifications. Without approvals you are placing your trust in the reputation of the blender. That is not necessarily bad if you have experience with the blender, and redline has a good reputation, but there are some evil blenders out there. I am an advisor for the Petroleum Quality Institute of America (www.pqia.org), This organization buys bottles of motor oils from retail store shelves ac

No, not even close. Maybe in the old days but not today. Here is a list of their products with links to their SDSs: https://www.redlineoil.com/technical-info Section 3 of the SDS must list any hazardous ingredients. The few I looked at show large amounts of PAO and Group III. The SDS must list the Group III which shows as "Distillates, petroleum, hydrotreated heavy paraffinic", and the PAO which shows as "1-Dodecene, Homopolymer, Hydrogenated". There is no need to list the esters because they are not considered hazardous.

If I understand the translation correctly, you are asking what are the disadvantages of using a fully formulated motor oil that is based entirely or mostly on ester. There is no disadvantage if the oil has been fully tested and passed the required specifications and approvals for your engine. These specifications will test for seal compatibility and assure that the finished balance oil is suitable. Without the testing and approvals the risk gets higher as the ester content gets higher.

I honestly have no idea and it would be a pure guess. Hopefully it would at least be 10-20% if they are making the claim and are honorable people, perhaps much more. I knew the original founders of Redline and started selling them in 1979. They were honorable people, and I even considered working for them, but they are retired and I never met the new owners.

Because PAO has no polarity and will counter balance the softening and swelling effects of POEs on the seals. GTLs are better at dissolving additives and milder on seals so esters are not needed. Adding some ester to GTL will provide benefits and I would do so if I was formulating with one and cost was not a factor. With most major oil blenders, however, cost is a very large factor. They just need to meet their target specifications and obtain their target approvals, and if they can do so without an expensive ester they generally do. Most people will not pay more for a better oil if they

Sorry, I have never formulated a motorcycle oil or had any interest in them, so I do not know what the formulations look like. In general, I do not add anything to a balanced and approved motor oil unless I have an engine problem and know that the additive will help. Mixing oils has some risks as some additives may be incompatible or reduce performance. One should know what they are adding, have a known good reason, and have a reasonable expectation the the additive will help. Experimenting with the oil can be fun and educational, but If one wants to experiment with their expensive engine

I do not know the Redline formulations and have not seen a GC on them. In the past they claimed their oils had high amounts of POE but they did not say how much, and the formulations may have changed. If one wishes to add some Redline oil to increase the ester content in their oil, I suggest adding one that shows a large ester absorbance in FTIR.

Sorry, I do not understand this translation. When I click the "Reveal Hidden Contents" button I can see the contents. Can others do that as well? Can I reply to the post, and will others see my reply?

Adding ester to a Group III can improve the oil, but it is not needed to dissolve additives and balance seals. Ester is needed for PAOs but not GTLs. While some small boutique oil companies add ester to improve their oils and charge a higher price, most larger oil companies will not add expensive ingredients that are not needed to pass the specifications they seek to claim. Since 99.9% of oil buyers have no idea what an ester is, it does not help their sales. If I was formulating an oil for my car I would add a proper POE at 20-30% in order to obtain the cleaning, volatility, an

Not sure why some posts are labeled "Reveal Hidden Contents". Why is content hidden? POEs have a slow cleaning effect and can improve lubricity and volatility. In general, POEs have half the Noack volatility of PAOs of the same viscosity. However, adding small amounts of ester will give small results. Adding too much can dilute the additives and cause leaking seals. Much depends on which ester, as well as how much. If you do not know the chemistry of the POE I would not exceed 10%. Best to add a Redline oil that is known to have a high amount of POE from FTIR since this has

Esters are expensive, mineral oils are cheap, and automotive oils are competitive. Therefore esters are only added to automotive oils if they are needed for technical reasons. The most common technical reasons are to improve additive solubility and to soften and swell seals, and to lesser degrees to reduce volatility and improve lubricity. Esters are needed in pure PAO formulations because PAOs have no polarity and so have poor additive solubility, and they tend to shrink and harden seals. Esters correct these problems with PAOs. Groups I, II, and III base oils have some polari

As Sintex said, there are dozens of ester manufacturers and hundreds of different esters. Out company alone made some 80 different esters including about 50 POEs. To make POEs we used four different polyol alcohols, each reacting with between two and six fatty acids. And we used 10 different fatty acids, so you can imagine the number of combinations possible. In addition we could oligomerize the esters to create even more. The acids and alcohols each contributed different properties to the ester, so we selected and mixed them according to what properties the application needed. They are "desig

I generally do not rely on FTIR for determining oil composition. While it can be useful for some compounds, it is not specific enough for esters. It measures absorbance from carbonyl groups (C=O) which esters contain. but so do other ingredients and additives. Even if we knew the C=O absorbance was due entirely to an ester base oil, we do not know which ester. There are many different POEs used in PCMOs and they vary from two to eight or more carbonyl containing ester linkages in the molecules, so their absorbance varies by type and therefore cannot measure the concentration with any accur

Many years ago I sold POEs to Redline when they first started. They have changed ownership and I do not know what they are using in their oils today. I believe their literature still claims that they use POEs, but I do not know what kind or how much. If you have a gas chromatogram of a Redline oil I should be able to see the ester and perhaps identify it.

Esters are made by reacting alcohols with acids, which creates ester and water. The reaction is reversible, so reacting water with ester creates alcohol and acid. This is not a problem in most applications because the reverse reaction is very slow and difficult, and esters are designed to be used in high temperatures where there is little or no water. Car engines, however, may have a wet environment due to water in the blow-by and condensation, especially when driven in short trips or stop-and-go traffic. Over time the ester may slowly break down, the any acids released may neutralize the a

If you mean adding a pure or nearly pure POE, such as a jet engine oil or refrigeration oil, there may be some benefit but also some risk since you are diluting the additives in your motor oil, and some esters can soften seals. There are many different kinds of POE and some are better than others. If you keep the amount to 10% or less of pure POE the risk is very small, but the cleaning effect will not be great. I would only do so if you have reason to believe that your engine is dirty and it is affecting performance. Another way to do this is to add a quart of Redline oil which they claim

I know of these products but do not know the formulations. Their Data Sheets and SDSs may provide some clues if you have them.

Yes and yes. Some refrigeration oils are just pure POEs, and some contain additives. Those that do contain additives usually have very small amounts, mostly anti-oxidants and corrosion inhibitors, and sometimes some anti-wear. POEs entered the refrigeration market after the Montreal Protocol in 1987 because the old CFC refrigerants had to change to HFC chemistry due to the effect of the CFC gases on the ozone layer. The old mineral oil lubricants used with the old CFCs were not miscible with the new HFC refrigerants, and so esters and PAGs entered the market as new lubricants fo